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Top 5 overrated distilleries.

lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 10:13 am

I went back on the threads over a year and could not see this one so I thought I would start it now, apologies if this is already out there. In truth there will be some cross over to other threads like ridiculous prices but there is a big difference between a good whisky that is far too expensive and a rubbish whisky that is far too expensive?

This is just a personal view designed to generate a discussion, nothing more. My comments are based on experience of the whisky.

In no particular order.

1 - Macallan - trading on past glories, recent stuff has not been that good and far too expensive.

2 - Dalmore - How can a brand charge so much for older bottlings when its core range is so mundane?

3 - Ardbeg - similar to Macallan, far too expensive for the product it dishes out now, over hyped in the extreme.

4 - Glendronach, older bottles are good but  not as good as the scores on WB suggest and is a bit of a one trick pony, again prices on the secondary market do not match the quality inside the bottle.

5 - Could have been anyone of a number to be honest, I will have a think about this one, needs some thought.

karloff
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 14:38 pm

I totally agree with lincs first two. Ardbeg I do like their whisky but I have to agree it is over priced and over hyped.

Glenlivet for me, I just find their whisky dull and uninspiring.

The Balvenie is another one I find over priced for what you get in the bottle. It's not a bad whisky but vastly overrated.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Tom Waits
praisethepasta
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 15:35 pm
Dalmore and macallan indeed. 
Glenlivet: I can see your point but I don't think their whiskies are overrated. Unlike others they don't automatically slap an outrageous pricetag on anything over 12 Yo. Don't think ardbeg is overrated. Overhyped, yes, to almost a cult following and the nuance between the two may be small but there is a difference imo.  So to conclude, I'm just gonna say it: I think aberlour a'bunadh isn't worth the hype nor the price.
2 more that are overrated, certainly pricewise: balvenie (anything other than the standard 12 Yo is Often too expensive and overrated) and to a lesser degree the same could be said for balblair or glenrothes, two whiskies where the standard range  isn't bad, but not great either and where you can find far better options for the same money

karloff wrote:

I totally agree with lincs first two. Ardbeg I do like their whisky but I have to agree it is over priced and over hyped.

Glenlivet for me, I just find their whisky dull and uninspiring.

The Balvenie is another one I find over priced for what you get in the bottle. It's not a bad whisky but vastly overrated.



The turtle moves My Collection
mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 16:02 pm

Both of you guys read my mind, but I'm only going to half agree with Lincoln.  For what you get Macallan and Dalmore are by far the most overpriced whiskies on the market.  The former is finally putting an end to the colour nonsense so we'll see what they can do going forward.  The latter... one word, Constellations.  Give me a break.

Lincoln's views on Ardbeg and Glendronach are well known.  wink  I'll agree both are overpriced but at least the quality is there (for me at least).  Glendronach can be very hit & miss, I'll grant you, but that's what happens when you release so many single casks (which I must applaud, regardless of their lack of consistency).  The thing with Glendronach is when they're good they're very good.  You just have to do your research first.  The problem is Glendronach inflation has outstripped that of the industry-at-large by a significant margin, ever since the aged stuff from '70-72 stormed the market a few years ago.  (it should be noted, for Glendronach I'm almost exclusively single-cask because that's where the fun is, I don't bother with their standard releases much at all)

I agree with Karloff as well regarding Glenlivet and Balvenie.  I'd add Glenfiddich as well.  It's not overrated by discriminating drammers (I think most consider it average at best), but it definitely is by the masses.  

(Edit: Come to think of it, this conversation kind of depends on who we're talking about. Like Glenfiddich I think most discriminating drammers think very little of Macallan and Dalmore of late. The same is probably true of Balvenie and Glenlivet.)

  Edited on 10-02-2018 at 16:09 pm
mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 16:12 pm
I'm just gonna say it: I think aberlour a'bunadh isn't worth the hype nor the price.

Depends on the batch.  There are some outstanding A'bunadh releases.  Others not so much. 

(edit: overpriced?  that depends on the release as well.  the #36 I had was definitely worth the money because it took water so well for me that it was damn near two bottles in one)

  Edited on 10-02-2018 at 16:18 pm
VaryingViewpoint
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 17:42 pm

Dalmore & Macallan; Over priced and waaaay over hyped post 2012. 

Ardbeg; Core rang is still somewhat reasonably priced, but these constant NAS special editions are nothing but marking hype machines in creating the illusion of better product at higher price points that rely on scarcity.  

Balvenie; Over priced mundan releases. The little brother of Macallan.

Glendronach; Core rang releases post 2013 is over hyped. Reputation of pre 2013 seems to colour most newbies who like the more drinkable releases.

Laphroaig: Nas releases of late. Following in the foot steps of their contemporaries. Are they destined to be in the top 3?

  Edited on 10-02-2018 at 17:51 pm
One life... Drink it well
VaryingViewpoint
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 17:51 pm

mrgood wrote:

 I'll agree both are overpriced but at least the quality is there (for me at least).  Glendronach can be very hit & miss, I'll grant you, but that's what happens when you release so many single casks (which I must applaud, regardless of their lack of consistency).  The thing with Glendronach is when they're good they're very good.  You just have to do your research first.  The problem is Glendronach inflation has outstripped that of the industry-at-large by a significant margin, ever since the aged stuff from '70-72 stormed the market a few years ago.  (it should be noted, for Glendronach I'm almost exclusively single-cask because that's where the fun is, I don't bother with their standard releases much at all)

Although the cask releases have doubled over the last 18 months, compared to most others value can still be found, depending on the particular cask release. Like mrgood said "You just have to do your research first." and when you find what you are looking for in a sherry bomb that is to your liking, load up! Based on my experience I would guesstimate that only 1 out of 4 cask releases are worth the money. And as prices rise, that ratio may drop off even more.

  Edited on 10-02-2018 at 18:40 pm
One life... Drink it well
lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 18:20 pm
mrgood wrote:


Lincoln's views on Ardbeg and Glendronach are well known.  wink  

Ardbeg most definitely  but recently my only gripe was that all the 72 single cask  Glendronach offerings I could not get over the 90 point mark, have I really been that harsh on Glendronach in the past, maybe my memory is failing me? wink

morgbug
Member Senior Senior Member
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 20:41 pm


Glendronach; Core rang releases post 2013 is over hyped. Reputation of pre 2013 seems to colour most newbies who like the more drinkable releases.



The 18 seems to still be holding its own (pre-2000 distillations still coming out) thankfully but the 12 is not the same, Parliament is now overpriced though still in line or cheaper than many other 21s.  Can't see the new 15, whenever it comes out, being as good as the Revival but I'll give it a shot.  


So much of everything these days is predicated on "collectability" of the whisky and few seem to even open the damn bottles anymore.  I know that's not the case around here but on instagram you see so many pictures of people snapping up cases of stuff - Macallan's new Cask Strength springs to mind.  Not as good as the previous release but it hasn't stopped people from speculating on it and storing it away for future sales at a profit.  That seems, to me at least, the entire direction that Scotch whisky has headed - let's make something someone will collect and who gives a tinker's damn about the quality in the bottle.  Macallan, Dalmore, Ardbeg and so many more are producing stuff simply to be put on a shelf as speculation it seems.  It's about the label and how pretty it is, how nice the packaging the bottle comes in, what its secondary market value will be.  Everything I own I plan to drink and any future purchases are made with the same mindset.  I'd love to try a $1000+ whisky but I just won't ever spend that kind of money on a bottle because I'd feel so guilty drinking it when I have a family that needs stuff too.  Never mind a Dalmore Constellation series.  

VaryingViewpoint
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 21:29 pm

morgbug wrote:

VaryingViewpoint wrote:


Glendronach; Core rang releases post 2013 is over hyped. Reputation of pre 2013 seems to colour most newbies who like the more drinkable releases.



The 18 seems to still be holding its own (pre-2000 distillations still coming out) thankfully but the 12 is not the same, Parliament is now overpriced though still in line or cheaper than many other 21s.  Can't see the new 15, whenever it comes out, being as good as the Revival but I'll give it a shot.  


So much of everything these days is predicated on "collectability" of the whisky and few seem to even open the damn bottles anymore.  I know that's not the case around here but on instagram you see so many pictures of people snapping up cases of stuff - Macallan's new Cask Strength springs to mind.  Not as good as the previous release but it hasn't stopped people from speculating on it and storing it away for future sales at a profit.  That seems, to me at least, the entire direction that Scotch whisky has headed - let's make something someone will collect and who gives a tinker's damn about the quality in the bottle.  Macallan, Dalmore, Ardbeg and so many more are producing stuff simply to be put on a shelf as speculation it seems.  It's about the label and how pretty it is, how nice the packaging the bottle comes in, what its secondary market value will be.  Everything I own I plan to drink and any future purchases are made with the same mindset.  I'd love to try a $1000+ whisky but I just won't ever spend that kind of money on a bottle because I'd feel so guilty drinking it when I have a family that needs stuff too.  Never mind a Dalmore Constellation series.  

Couldn't agree more! Highland Park is really good at this, but I wouldn't put them in this list as their core-range hasn't rocketed up in price like most and they haven't thinned-out their quality (in their core-range) at the same time. 


The problem with the ones that make this list is they are gouging the customer at both ends; higher prices with thinned-out quality. Dalmore & Macallan are the best at this! Using their name reputation from decades past to dupe new drinkers in excepting drinkable kool-aid, and intern educating them on what makes a great dram? 

  Edited on 10-02-2018 at 21:40 pm
One life... Drink it well
BXpress
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 22:56 pm

Glendronach. As an anti-Sherry extremist i simply find them uninteresting. They are the kings of "let's play it safe". Idiot proof super dark Sherry bombs. The ones i had, i sent to auction long ago and when they start releasing refill single casks I might buy one again. I only kept the Revival as i find it not too dark.

Laphroaig. The undisputed God Emperor of one trick ponyism. Bomb your Whisky with peat and claim to produce the "most flavoursome Whisky" in the world. Tell you what, i bomb my coffee with sugar, and i rightfully claim to make the sweetest coffee in the world. Big achievement isn't it? I bought the new 15 (oddly enough, it's not all that super peaty which is good), the 10 CS in 2014 for 69 Euro and that's it. Might send this one to auction too.

  Edited on 10-02-2018 at 23:02 pm
BenNevis
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 10-02-2018 at 23:28 pm

Dalmore  Glendronach and Ardbeg stand out for me, Macallan is over priced and not what it used to be, As for Glenlivet, its the same as Glenffidich , not very inspiring, but I have to say the Glenlivet 18yo is a very nice drink unlike the 18yo Glenfiddich

  Edited on 10-02-2018 at 23:28 pm
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mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 11-02-2018 at 04:11 am

BXpress wrote:

Laphroaig. The undisputed God Emperor of one trick ponyism.

ha ha, so true... but there's nothing wrong with that when you happen to like that particular pony.  You always know what you're getting.  I don't go to Laphroaig for nuance, but when it's really &%#ing cold outside and I come into the house freezing my keister off, Lapher is still my go-to warm-up whisky.

mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 11-02-2018 at 04:21 am
mrgood wrote:

Lincoln's views on Ardbeg and Glendronach are well known.  wink  

Ardbeg most definitely  but recently my only gripe was that all the 72 single cask  Glendronach offerings I could not get over the 90 point mark, have I really been that harsh on Glendronach in the past, maybe my memory is failing me? wink

Certainly not as blatantly as with Ardbeg, but I seem to recall you knocking the 'Dronach down a peg now and again.  happy  To be honest I can only speak from experience on one '72 Glendronach (they're so hard to source now), but I can tell you it was a cracker.  I sampled it and bought a bottle immediately.  Then thought about it for a while and went back and got another one for good measure.  Good thing I did too, because their prices have  probably quadrupled since then.  Sorry but no thank you, not at that price.

dram_on
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 11-02-2018 at 06:04 am

Ardbeg, Laphroaig, Glendronach, Macallan, and Dalmore...all five guilty as already pointed out above.


Here are two new ones: Aberlour (boring and bland) and Glenfarclas (too sulfur-y).

Onislay
Member Senior Senior Member
Posted on 12-02-2018 at 19:56 pm

1.  Macallan, lousy quality, one of the kick starters of NAS

2. Highland Park, great stories and marketing which do not match quality price / ratio

3. Ardbeg... Marketing took over 

4 . Dalmore, you can better just enjoy a cigare without dalmore wink

5. Port Ellen... Diageo all over the place

And special note for glenfiddich indeed, this seems the heineken of whisky ... wink

mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 12-02-2018 at 22:00 pm

Onislay wrote:

And special note for glenfiddich indeed, this seems the heineken of whisky ... wink

ha ha, must be European happy   I had no idea Heineken was so looked down on over there.  In North America Heiny is still a halfass luxury (relatively speaking,  though I personally usually prefer something more substantial, but anyway...).  For your analogy I think most North Americans would've used something like Budweiser or Coors.... now THOSE are mass-market swill.  might as well drink water.

Budweiser/Coors vs Heineken, the latter wins all day long.

praisethepasta
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 14-02-2018 at 09:03 am
mrgood wrote:

Onislay wrote:

And special note for glenfiddich indeed, this seems the heineken of whisky ... wink

ha ha, must be European happy   I had no idea Heineken was so looked down on over there.  In North America Heiny is still a halfass luxury (relatively speaking,  though I personally usually prefer something more substantial, but anyway...).  For your analogy I think most North Americans would've used something like Budweiser or Coors.... now THOSE are mass-market swill.  might as well drink water.

Budweiser/Coors vs Heineken, the latter wins all day long.

Ha, being from Belgium, that's one thing we've got going for us: never short of great beer and never, ever, ever a debate whether Heineken or Budweiser is better as we don't have to deal with those options  happy



The turtle moves My Collection
BXpress
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 14-02-2018 at 09:27 am
mrgood wrote:

Onislay wrote:

And special note for glenfiddich indeed, this seems the heineken of whisky ... wink

ha ha, must be European happy   I had no idea Heineken was so looked down on over there.  In North America Heiny is still a halfass luxury (relatively speaking,  though I personally usually prefer something more substantial, but anyway...).  For your analogy I think most North Americans would've used something like Budweiser or Coors.... now THOSE are mass-market swill.  might as well drink water.

Budweiser/Coors vs Heineken, the latter wins all day long.

Ha, being from Belgium, that's one thing we've got going for us: never short of great beer and never, ever, ever a debate whether Heineken or Budweiser is better as we don't have to deal with those options  happy




I don't have much experience with craft beer but the Belgian Trappistes Rochefort 10 completely blew me away. If you guys find that somewhere in North America, grab it. One glass (0.3l) is like 12 rounds of heavy weight boxing.

mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 14-02-2018 at 15:53 pm

BXpress wrote:

praisethepasta wrote:

Ha, being from Belgium, that's one thing we've got going for us: never short of great beer and never, ever, ever a debate whether Heineken or Budweiser is better as we don't have to deal with those options  happy

I don't have much experience with craft beer but the Belgian Trappistes Rochefort 10 completely blew me away. If you guys find that somewhere in North America, grab it. One glass (0.3l) is like 12 rounds of heavy weight boxing.

The Rochefort we have in abundance where I am (albeit pretty pricey), it's the Westvleteren we're missing out on.  Depending on your tastes the two may be comparable (though the latter is much harder to get your hands on), but if you get the chance, try it.   The Westie shattered my frontal lobe to pieces.

  Edited on 14-02-2018 at 15:56 pm
peatbogger
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 14-02-2018 at 23:22 pm
Ha, being from Belgium, that's one thing we've got going for us: never short of great beer and never, ever, ever a debate whether Heineken or Budweiser is better as we don't have to deal with those options  happy

Some people are so stuck in their ways it baffles me.

Menu pages up and down with local beer, still someone managed to ask if they had Carlsberg.

Loved how the waiter completely ignored the question and just moved on to take the order from the guy next to him happy

peatbogger
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 14-02-2018 at 23:35 pm

No doubt on Macallan and Dalmore in that order on top here as well.

But for my third I think I will venture outside of Scotland.

A few Japanese spring to mind, but Taiwanese Kavalan surfs in at 3rd on my list.

The core range is all NAS, bland at best, and overpriced.

The CS SC Solists are novelties at best, and to add insult to injury; over rated and priced at silly money for what it is.

karloff
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 15-02-2018 at 00:31 am

No doubt on Macallan and Dalmore in that order on top here as well.

But for my third I think I will venture outside of Scotland.

A few Japanese spring to mind, but Taiwanese Kavalan surfs in at 3rd on my list.

The core range is all NAS, bland at best, and overpriced.

The CS SC Solists are novelties at best, and to add insult to injury; over rated and priced at silly money for what it is.


I was at my local whisky shop looking around and the bloke in the shop said are you looking for anything in particular?  I said no not really, just looking for something a bit different . He said have you tried Taiwan whisky Kavalan?  I said YES. It must have been the look on my face because he swiftly moved on to something else. 

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Tom Waits
dram_on
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 15-02-2018 at 04:37 am

On the topic of Kavalan (and Omar), I find the whiskies in general to be too hot. The prices of their bottlings have increased quite a bit over the past few years. I wonder if Amrut should be grouped in this whisky-being-matured-much-faster-than-usual category due to the local hot and humid weather...

praisethepasta
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 15-02-2018 at 13:20 pm
mrgood wrote:

BXpress wrote:

praisethepasta wrote:

Ha, being from Belgium, that's one thing we've got going for us: never short of great beer and never, ever, ever a debate whether Heineken or Budweiser is better as we don't have to deal with those options  happy

I don't have much experience with craft beer but the Belgian Trappistes Rochefort 10 completely blew me away. If you guys find that somewhere in North America, grab it. One glass (0.3l) is like 12 rounds of heavy weight boxing.

The Rochefort we have in abundance where I am (albeit pretty pricey), it's the Westvleteren we're missing out on.  Depending on your tastes the two may be comparable (though the latter is much harder to get your hands on), but if you get the chance, try it.   The Westie shattered my frontal lobe to pieces.


The thing with  Westvleteren: it's the most rare of all Belgian Trappist. It's not commercially distributed - only on very rare occasions they sent out a batch to the general public, so anyone who wants a case has to contact the monastery and fill out a form (luckily: the monks have discovered the internet so that at least can be done through their website or by e-mail). Then, you wait for your turn, which can easily take months, and when you get that e-mail you have been on the lookout for for weeks if not months,  you have to drive up there on a day and hour stated by the brewery and queue up until you can pick up your order. Granted, it does have its charm to go through all of that and the fact that you are very near the site where your desired beer has been made, makes it more special than just loading it up in a cart at the supermarket. 

While we're sidestepping: if you ever get the chance to try other Trappists, they're all good, but a particular mention to Orval, an ideal refreshing beer for warm summer days: as it's brewed at a lower ABV (6.5% I believe), it's nice, with a lovely bittersweet and sweet and sour balance, and it doesn't knock your socks off like some of the heavier other stuff.

The turtle moves My Collection
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