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lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 14-09-2016 at 13:31 pm

Manager's Dram WhiskiesEnds Sunday 18th September from 20.00 UK Time


This month sees us with a huge amount of choice and in particular the Manager's Dram range of whiskies. The Manager's Dram series was a range started by S.M.D. and is a result of each Distillery Manager being tasked with selecting a single cask of whisky which best encapsulated the character and qualities of their Distillery.

All participating managers brought one sample from their stock to their semi-annual get-together parties and after a blind tasting, a winner would be appointed. That winning whisky was bottled and each manager was given a bottle. The whisky was not intended for general availability, but occasionally they make an appearance at auction. The bottles have become very collectable and with good reason - all are presented at full cask strength and are renowned to be of high quality


This is something that I hate, this email came from Just  Whisky Auction today. This email is designed to  entice the gullible.
Managers Dram bottles are always on auction sites they are regulars and not all of them are any good.
This email is squarely aimed at new investors who know nothing about whisky.
As with TWE, Just Whisky Auction it is a business so I suppose you cannot blame them for trying to maximise their profit.

I cannot help but feel that the whisky industry in general, distilleries, retailers and associated businesses are destroying the industry from the inside and the investors and collectors have compounded the problem in the search of gains.
I agree everyone has to make a healthy living from it but the greed is self perpetuating and eventually it will be their downfall and ours.
Many of us from talking here on the forum are sick and tired of all the bullshit, some of us are looking for alternatives to single malts or whisky in general, some are stocking up on favourite drams now before the price increases while others are just spending less because what you get for your money in no longer value.
In the pursuit of money they are destroying the good name of the industry either by being directly involved or indirectly, it is all relative.
  Edited on 14-09-2016 at 13:33 pm
peatbogger
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 14-09-2016 at 18:19 pm
A friend of mine who know a woman three doors down from where he lives, well her brother works for one of the big distilleries in Scotland and he told her at sometimes, when he's coming off a shift, he has seen tankers full of hydrogen dioxide and he said they add it to the mash as they put in the stills. You can't trust anyone these days, bastards!

Is it a full moon tonight? wink

I'm not that good at chemistry, but Hydrogen dioxide doesn't make sense, I don't even think it's a real thing.

The chemical formula would be HO2 - one hydrogen atom and two oxygen atoms.
Common water is H2O,  two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom and for those that want to complicate things it could be called Dihydrogen oxide.
Maybe it is Hydrogen peroxide, which is H2O2, an antiseptic and cleaning solution?

How long before we see a whisky made with D2O (heavy water)?
Then we're talking exclusive and limited.

thanasist
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 12:38 pm
lincolnimp wrote:
thanasist wrote:

I really admire thewhiskyexchange owner as a businessman i must admit. He was amongst the first who forsaw the whisky demand raise and acted accordingly for his own best interest of course. This is not for our best interest and don't shoot me for writing this words but in general i admire people who risk because the see something the rest of us don't and gain from their risk.

I suppose his risk was not little at first since he was buying a lot of bottles without the security that indeed will be sold at the prices wanted. And of course by taking that kind of risks don't forget that you could easily lose , and lose heavily. 
On the other hand i don't like at all people or bussiness who value money more than people relationships or ethics and explain. There are lot of merchants , private or stores that they just want to sell and they even hide flaws or anything else that the merchandice has andafter the sale they don't even wan't to hear about it.
For me the most important thing is that at the end of a deal both parties should be pleased since after all we are all adults here and in any way the transaction is made uppon the free will of both parties. No one is obligated to buy or exchange anything i suppose.
I am glad with those that try to make up if a deal goes wrong in any way 

The issue is with the TWE is that in a way they are a victim of their own success. They have brought whisky to the masses but like any juggernaut you can lose control of it. I lost faith with them when I saw them buying whisky at auction and then tripling the price in a matter of weeks,
If hey had doubled the price immediately or 125% ish, it would no be such an issue but it is greedy.
But they are business and as some people do not trust auctions so they pay their silly prices.
I understand they charge what they feel the market will stand.


Just to contribute to the arguement a bit : TWE is not considered, in my opinion, an expensive shop (from the UK based ones) regarding all the new bottles. I would say it is average.

Also , although they had on their hands some single cask bottles from eg Karuizawa that they bottled , and although it was already a period of very high demand on these they did not offer them in auction price but significantly less (very peculiar this one, maybe they didn't understood it well at that time?).
Last when you do have such a variety of old and special bottles it means buing a lot and from a lot of sources which means 1) a significant capital being stationed and 2) the probability for a loss on some of them or just that hte the bottles remain unsold. And this is mostly the risk in that business since it is a shop and since it is a bussiness to them. So it is not that weird selling so much above of what they paid.
And a personal experience is that they indeed bought some bottles from me in the past (a lot of years ago) that i saw they sold it for less than they paid me because they made a bad or mistaken judgement of their value. Of course most of the others where sold for double or more. And don't forget that their selling price includes a 20% VAT.
So when they buy something n the auction for an initila price of 100 pounds they end to pay to the auctioneer 112 pounds ( commission + VAT) . And when they sell it for 300 pounds wich includes 20% VAT they end to keep 260 pounds. so at the very end it is about 260 - 112 = 148 pounds profit which means a little bit more than double the amount paid.
Other than that i completely understand yours and many others frustration and i don't say (you know that) that i am completely against it.
My personal experience was that when an item of mine was sold in an auction , few days after it appeared in a Spanish shop happy coinsidence? I can't be 100% certain it was the one i sold but it was rare and expensive and to close after the auction ended so it is a good possibility. And of course they were selling it more than 2 times up.
  Edited on 15-09-2016 at 12:47 pm
mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 15:34 pm
lincolnimp wrote:
I saw them buying whisky at auction and then tripling the price in a matter of weeks,
...I understand they charge what they feel the market will stand.
If it sells relatively quickly then they were right, it IS what the market will stand, and I personally can't begrudge them for that.  They essentially recognize that a certain bottle is going to hammer far below market value so they buy it and sell it at what their real market value is  ...of course that's all out the window if the bottle ends up sitting on their shelf for years. 
(auction prices are not the real value, they are only the value as pertains to the people who are bidding at that particular auction.  TWE can sell for a lot more than an auction because their customer base is much wider)
mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 15:36 pm
peatbogger wrote:

How long before we see a whisky made with D2O (heavy water)?

Then we're talking exclusive and limited.

The Brack Bowmore?

theroachman
Member Senior Senior Member
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 15:51 pm

It's dihydrogen monoxide, not hydrogen dioxide. It's also used to cool nuclear power plants. And they put that stuff in our whisky!!

  Edited on 15-09-2016 at 15:54 pm
VaryingViewpoint
Moderator Moderator
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 16:11 pm
mrgood wrote:
lincolnimp wrote:
I saw them buying whisky at auction and then tripling the price in a matter of weeks,
...I understand they charge what they feel the market will stand.
If it sells relatively quickly then they were right, it IS what the market will stand, and I personally can't begrudge them for that.  They essentially recognize that a certain bottle is going to hammer far below market value so they buy it and sell it at what their real market value is  ...of course that's all out the window if the bottle ends up sitting on their shelf for years. 
(auction prices are not the real value, they are only the value as pertains to the people who are bidding at that particular auction.  TWE can sell for a lot more than an auction because their customer base is much wider)

That's correct! That's why if you are looking for a deal, auction is the best way. There are times when two bananas are going after the same thing (in any auction for anything) and because they both look at that item as if the world will end if that don't get it. The price can go to where all rational reason is thrown out the window. And that's when some think that that is the new price standard. And that usually only applies to items that are extremely rare.

One life... Drink it well
peatbogger
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 17:21 pm
theroachman wrote:

It's dihydrogen monoxide, not hydrogen dioxide. It's also used to cool nuclear power plants. And they put that stuff in our whisky!!


I said dihydrogen oxide, but oxide and monoxide is the same, so yes they do put dihydrogen monoxide in whisky.

The core of nuclear reactors are cooled with Deutrium oxide (D2O) not H2O, it is denser and absorbs radiation better.
Doesn't do any harm, there's about 0,015% of that added to whisky too, it's tasteless and odorless just like E150a.
But that's not new, I don't think there's any way around it.
What's new is getting it by truck, when they got pools and streams of it all over the place happy
But I can believe it, what I don't believe is that JB has a friend... at least not one that knows a woman three doors down... which has a brother working at a distillery wink


lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 19:03 pm
mrgood wrote:
lincolnimp wrote:
I saw them buying whisky at auction and then tripling the price in a matter of weeks,
...I understand they charge what they feel the market will stand.
If it sells relatively quickly then they were right, it IS what the market will stand, and I personally can't begrudge them for that.  They essentially recognize that a certain bottle is going to hammer far below market value so they buy it and sell it at what their real market value is  ...of course that's all out the window if the bottle ends up sitting on their shelf for years. 
(auction prices are not the real value, they are only the value as pertains to the people who are bidding at that particular auction.  TWE can sell for a lot more than an auction because their customer base is much wider)


My issue is that they are shameless about it when relative to time, If they waited a month or two I would not be so bothered but I understand nothing gets in the way of profit making. The Whisky Exchange actually make most of their money from selling lots of core ranges so they can put high prices on rarer stuff and wait because that is nothing more than a bonus in real terms in their business model.

  Edited on 15-09-2016 at 20:24 pm
BXpress
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 20:38 pm

i wouldn't get too angry about one shop. When i bought my Macallan 18, TWE had the lowest price. Also (well i might be the only one interested) the lowest price for this one

https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/80075/glencadam-25-year-old    can be found at TWE.




At Master of Malt this Blair Athol:

https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/59088/blair-athol-1988-lmdw

cost me only 140 Euro. At LMDW, the dudes who selected this Whisky, it was sold for 180. I guess my point is that there is no "go to" shop. Just pick whatever you need, where you may find it.

what i get angry about is when shops lure people with fake pictures of older/more popular versions, when they're actually selling a less popular version.


one shop (can't remember Which) sold Lochnagar Selected reserve. They showed a pic of this one:


https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/18277

while actually selling this one:

https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/43838/royal-lochnagar-selected-reserve

the clue was in the "Number of Bottles: 4080"

i came across many such examples. One even had a picture of Longmorn 15, while selling the new Longmorn 16.





mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 21:49 pm
BXpress wrote:

what i get angry about is when shops lure people with fake pictures of older/more popular versions, when they're actually selling a less popular version. 

The cynic in me wants to slap me in the face for being naive in even suggesting this, but I wonder if some cases (not all, but some) are just shop employees being lazy.  As in "meh, it's practically the same bottle, I don't need to go to the work of making a new picture.  who cares, who's going to notice?"...   I am, you lazy sack 'o crap happy

Or better yet, if they just don't even realize it's a different bottle, ie employees who are careless instead of lazy.

Just in case, I hereby shame lazy, careless employees in general.
dave3
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 21:59 pm
A friend of mine who know a woman three doors down from where he lives, well her brother works for one of the big distilleries in Scotland and he told her at sometimes, when he's coming off a shift, he has seen tankers full of hydrogen dioxide and he said they add it to the mash as they put in the stills. You can't trust anyone these days, bastards!

Is it a full moon tonight? wink



VaryingViewpoint
Moderator Moderator
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 21:59 pm
mrgood wrote:
BXpress wrote:

what i get angry about is when shops lure people with fake pictures of older/more popular versions, when they're actually selling a less popular version. 

The cynic in me wants to slap me in the face for being naive in even suggesting this, but I wonder if some cases (not all, but some) are just shop employees being lazy.  As in "meh, it's practically the same bottle, I don't need to go to the work of making a new picture.  who cares, who's going to notice?"...   I am, you lazy sack 'o crap happy

Or better yet, if they just don't even realize it's a different bottle, ie employees who are careless instead of lazy.

Just in case, I hereby shame lazy, careless employees in general.

That is true. I've had the same problem with liquor depot in the past with their on-line inventory. Way too many lazy people out there causing grief for everyone. And it starts at the top. I have a boss that's doesn't give a shit when I bring up issues with others that don't give a shit on how they do their job. His favourite saying is "not enough time in the day my friend". And nothing gets dealt with of fixed! 

  Edited on 15-09-2016 at 22:00 pm
One life... Drink it well
dave3
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 15-09-2016 at 22:06 pm
dave3 wrote:
A friend of mine who know a woman three doors down from where he lives, well her brother works for one of the big distilleries in Scotland and he told her at sometimes, when he's coming off a shift, he has seen tankers full of hydrogen dioxide and he said they add it to the mash as they put in the stills. You can't trust anyone these days, bastards!
Hydrogen dioxide is hydrogen peroxide which is hair bleach. Why would this be added to the mash as it is an oxidising agent ?
BXpress
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 16-09-2016 at 03:15 am
mrgood wrote:
BXpress wrote:

what i get angry about is when shops lure people with fake pictures of older/more popular versions, when they're actually selling a less popular version. 

The cynic in me wants to slap me in the face for being naive in even suggesting this, but I wonder if some cases (not all, but some) are just shop employees being lazy.  As in "meh, it's practically the same bottle, I don't need to go to the work of making a new picture.  who cares, who's going to notice?"...   I am, you lazy sack 'o crap happy

Or better yet, if they just don't even realize it's a different bottle, ie employees who are careless instead of lazy.

Just in case, I hereby shame lazy, careless employees in general.

That is true. I've had the same problem with liquor depot in the past with their on-line inventory. Way too many lazy people out there causing grief for everyone. And it starts at the top. I have a boss that's doesn't give a shit when I bring up issues with others that don't give a shit on how they do their job. His favourite saying is "not enough time in the day my friend". And nothing gets dealt with of fixed! 

no. too suspicious. even if they'd take the pics from google, how hard is it to recognize your own bottle? you would really have to go out of your way to have non-matching pictures. believe me, shop owners do read Whiskyfun and they do watch Ralfy. look at the Lochnagar example. the two bottles look nothing alike and it's not just an older version but a special edition aswell.

VaryingViewpoint
Moderator Moderator
Posted on 16-09-2016 at 03:45 am
BXpress wrote:
mrgood wrote:
BXpress wrote:

what i get angry about is when shops lure people with fake pictures of older/more popular versions, when they're actually selling a less popular version. 

The cynic in me wants to slap me in the face for being naive in even suggesting this, but I wonder if some cases (not all, but some) are just shop employees being lazy.  As in "meh, it's practically the same bottle, I don't need to go to the work of making a new picture.  who cares, who's going to notice?"...   I am, you lazy sack 'o crap happy

Or better yet, if they just don't even realize it's a different bottle, ie employees who are careless instead of lazy.

Just in case, I hereby shame lazy, careless employees in general.

That is true. I've had the same problem with liquor depot in the past with their on-line inventory. Way too many lazy people out there causing grief for everyone. And it starts at the top. I have a boss that's doesn't give a shit when I bring up issues with others that don't give a shit on how they do their job. His favourite saying is "not enough time in the day my friend". And nothing gets dealt with of fixed! 

no. too suspicious. even if they'd take the pics from google, how hard is it to recognize your own bottle? you would really have to go out of your way to have non-matching pictures. believe me, shop owners do read Whiskyfun and they do watch Ralfy. look at the Lochnagar example. the two bottles look nothing alike and it's not just an older version but a special edition aswell.

Liquor depot had Springbank 21-year-old on their site and this is the one they showed https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/3504 when in fact they had this one https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/30350/springbank-21-year-old This has happened at least 6 or 7 times. They know nothing of Whiskyfun or Ralfy. In fact, they know almost nothing about whisky at all. They are just a bunch of retail twats.

  Edited on 16-09-2016 at 13:48 pm
One life... Drink it well
lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 16-09-2016 at 09:49 am
BXpress wrote:
mrgood wrote:
BXpress wrote:

what i get angry about is when shops lure people with fake pictures of older/more popular versions, when they're actually selling a less popular version. 

The cynic in me wants to slap me in the face for being naive in even suggesting this, but I wonder if some cases (not all, but some) are just shop employees being lazy.  As in "meh, it's practically the same bottle, I don't need to go to the work of making a new picture.  who cares, who's going to notice?"...   I am, you lazy sack 'o crap happy

Or better yet, if they just don't even realize it's a different bottle, ie employees who are careless instead of lazy.

Just in case, I hereby shame lazy, careless employees in general.

That is true. I've had the same problem with liquor depot in the past with their on-line inventory. Way too many lazy people out there causing grief for everyone. And it starts at the top. I have a boss that's doesn't give a shit when I bring up issues with others that don't give a shit on how they do their job. His favourite saying is "not enough time in the day my friend". And nothing gets dealt with of fixed! 

no. too suspicious. even if they'd take the pics from google, how hard is it to recognize your own bottle? you would really have to go out of your way to have non-matching pictures. believe me, shop owners do read Whiskyfun and they do watch Ralfy. look at the Lochnagar example. the two bottles look nothing alike and it's not just an older version but a special edition aswell.

Liquor depot had Springbank 21-year-old on their site and this is the they showed https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/3504 when in fact they had this one https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/30350/springbank-21-year-old This has happened at least 6 or 7 times. They know nothing of Whiskyfun or Ralfy. In fact, they no almost nothing about whisky at all. They are just a bunch of retail twats.


This happens quite a lot but if you know whisky yourself and know prices you can pretty much guess whether the picture matches the price and it is the right bottle.
It is wrong to say retailers  know nothing because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?
I wish there were sellers who were that stupid. happy
mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 16-09-2016 at 15:25 pm
lincolnimp wrote:
They are just a bunch of retail twats.
This happens quite a lot but if you know whisky yourself and know prices you can pretty much guess whether the picture matches the price and it is the right bottle.
It is wrong to say retailers  know nothing because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?
I wish there were sellers who were that stupid.

You give them too much credit.  The big-box shops (at least in Canada), and even some of the less-whisky-savvy boutiques, don't look at current prices, they just slap a mark-up on their cost and price it at that.  The good thing is it makes it possible to find some real steals.  I once picked up a Port Ellen official release for a 3rd the going rate, all because it had been sitting hidden on the shelf for a while and was still priced at the original mark-up.  One of my Broras was snagged for cheap that way too.... so I'm not complaining  happy

With Varying's example of Liquor Depot, i think it's not that they go out of their way to deceive, it's more that they have a bottle that sells out, and when they bring in a replacement just keep the same picture.
mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 16-09-2016 at 15:54 pm
I'm going go ahead and shame myself for being a sucker  happy  and thus being part of the problem.

I've got a number of gimmick bottles, I really am a sucker for those sometimes.  Not so much with whisky, but with brandy, cognac, rum, vodka... whew, man, it's embarrassing the lineup of goofy bottles I've accumulated.

Also, while I've long since learned my lesson, in the past I have been guilty of paying idiotic prices for a few bottles, like these:
The good news is they should be top-class very superb malts (with the exception of the Dhu which is honestly a complete mystery quality-wise)... but I'm still embarrassed at being enough of a sucker to pay too much for them in the first place.   at least this was, for the most part, a few years ago, before prices REALLY got out of control.
VaryingViewpoint
Moderator Moderator
Posted on 16-09-2016 at 15:54 pm
lincolnimp wrote:
BXpress wrote:
mrgood wrote:
BXpress wrote:

what i get angry about is when shops lure people with fake pictures of older/more popular versions, when they're actually selling a less popular version. 

The cynic in me wants to slap me in the face for being naive in even suggesting this, but I wonder if some cases (not all, but some) are just shop employees being lazy.  As in "meh, it's practically the same bottle, I don't need to go to the work of making a new picture.  who cares, who's going to notice?"...   I am, you lazy sack 'o crap happy

Or better yet, if they just don't even realize it's a different bottle, ie employees who are careless instead of lazy.

Just in case, I hereby shame lazy, careless employees in general.

That is true. I've had the same problem with liquor depot in the past with their on-line inventory. Way too many lazy people out there causing grief for everyone. And it starts at the top. I have a boss that's doesn't give a shit when I bring up issues with others that don't give a shit on how they do their job. His favourite saying is "not enough time in the day my friend". And nothing gets dealt with of fixed! 

no. too suspicious. even if they'd take the pics from google, how hard is it to recognize your own bottle? you would really have to go out of your way to have non-matching pictures. believe me, shop owners do read Whiskyfun and they do watch Ralfy. look at the Lochnagar example. the two bottles look nothing alike and it's not just an older version but a special edition aswell.

Liquor depot had Springbank 21-year-old on their site and this is the they showed https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/3504 when in fact they had this one https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/30350/springbank-21-year-old This has happened at least 6 or 7 times. They know nothing of Whiskyfun or Ralfy. In fact, they no almost nothing about whisky at all. They are just a bunch of retail twats.


This happens quite a lot but if you know whisky yourself and know prices you can pretty much guess whether the picture matches the price and it is the right bottle.
It is wrong to say retailers  know nothing because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?
I wish there were sellers who were that stupid. happy
Unfortunately or fortunately (depending how you look at it) they are "that stupid". The big box retailers are a lot like grocery store clerks. I don't even want to converse with them anymore as they are so dim-witted. They don't know what chilled filtration is, that some have added colourant in them, or that there are such things as batch differences. They know nothing about what they are selling. There are just there to assist you. 

And to your point on "because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?" they do one better. They mis-price new stock well below their own cost. That has happened several times and the only time that it's caught is when I've tried using a 10% off coupon to get an additional discount because the computer sometimes won't allow further discounts under cost. One guy over-rided it for me once by giving me the discount on something else twice to make-up for the fact that he wasn't able to do it on the Macallan 30yo Fine Oak that was already mis-priced hundreds of dollars below their cost. And this mis-pricing is happening at the corporate level. The stores don't set the prices.

This happens with Wine and Beyond in Edmonton and Co-op in Calgary. Big box big chains running everything like a corporation that hires anyone that can walk and chew gum. And if you think that is bad? Some of the sales reps for the scotches like Highland Park, Macallan and Glenrothes are no better. If you are young, can smile and are of a cheery nature you get the job. I've had some private stores tell me that these new sales reps know nothing about what they are pushing.
  Edited on 16-09-2016 at 16:14 pm
One life... Drink it well
VaryingViewpoint
Moderator Moderator
Posted on 16-09-2016 at 16:00 pm
mrgood wrote:
lincolnimp wrote:
They are just a bunch of retail twats.
This happens quite a lot but if you know whisky yourself and know prices you can pretty much guess whether the picture matches the price and it is the right bottle.
It is wrong to say retailers  know nothing because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?
I wish there were sellers who were that stupid.

You give them too much credit.  The big-box shops (at least in Canada), and even some of the less-whisky-savvy boutiques, don't look at current prices, they just slap a mark-up on their cost and price it at that.  The good thing is it makes it possible to find some real steals.  I once picked up a Port Ellen official release for a 3rd the going rate, all because it had been sitting hidden on the shelf for a while and was still priced at the original mark-up.  One of my Broras was snagged for cheap that way too.... so I'm not complaining  happy

With Varying's example of Liquor Depot, i think it's not that they go out of their way to deceive, it's more that they have a bottle that sells out, and when they bring in a replacement just keep the same picture.

On this one, I don't think it's because they sold out of the old bottle and failed to up date their photo. They just go on line and find a Springbank 21yo and think "that's the one". They are getting better at putting up the right photos now. But for a time the people that were handling their site at head-office weren't even handling the product that they were selling in the store. There is a real disconnect between head-office and store level customer service on what they are selling.

  Edited on 16-09-2016 at 16:09 pm
One life... Drink it well
lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 16-09-2016 at 19:10 pm
lincolnimp wrote:
BXpress wrote:
mrgood wrote:
BXpress wrote:

what i get angry about is when shops lure people with fake pictures of older/more popular versions, when they're actually selling a less popular version. 

The cynic in me wants to slap me in the face for being naive in even suggesting this, but I wonder if some cases (not all, but some) are just shop employees being lazy.  As in "meh, it's practically the same bottle, I don't need to go to the work of making a new picture.  who cares, who's going to notice?"...   I am, you lazy sack 'o crap happy

Or better yet, if they just don't even realize it's a different bottle, ie employees who are careless instead of lazy.

Just in case, I hereby shame lazy, careless employees in general.

That is true. I've had the same problem with liquor depot in the past with their on-line inventory. Way too many lazy people out there causing grief for everyone. And it starts at the top. I have a boss that's doesn't give a shit when I bring up issues with others that don't give a shit on how they do their job. His favourite saying is "not enough time in the day my friend". And nothing gets dealt with of fixed! 

no. too suspicious. even if they'd take the pics from google, how hard is it to recognize your own bottle? you would really have to go out of your way to have non-matching pictures. believe me, shop owners do read Whiskyfun and they do watch Ralfy. look at the Lochnagar example. the two bottles look nothing alike and it's not just an older version but a special edition aswell.

Liquor depot had Springbank 21-year-old on their site and this is the they showed https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/3504 when in fact they had this one https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/30350/springbank-21-year-old This has happened at least 6 or 7 times. They know nothing of Whiskyfun or Ralfy. In fact, they no almost nothing about whisky at all. They are just a bunch of retail twats.


This happens quite a lot but if you know whisky yourself and know prices you can pretty much guess whether the picture matches the price and it is the right bottle.
It is wrong to say retailers  know nothing because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?
I wish there were sellers who were that stupid. happy
Unfortunately or fortunately (depending how you look at it) they are "that stupid". The big box retailers are a lot like grocery store clerks. I don't even want to converse with them anymore as they are so dim-witted. They don't know what chilled filtration is, that some have added colourant in them, or that there are such things as batch differences. They know nothing about what they are selling. There are just there to assist you. 

And to your point on "because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?" they do one better. They mis-price new stock well below their own cost. That has happened several times and the only time that it's caught is when I've tried using a 10% off coupon to get an additional discount because the computer sometimes won't allow further discounts under cost. One guy over-rided it for me once by giving me the discount on something else twice to make-up for the fact that he wasn't able to do it on the Macallan 30yo Fine Oak that was already mis-priced hundreds of dollars below their cost. And this mis-pricing is happening at the corporate level. The stores don't set the prices.

This happens with Wine and Beyond in Edmonton and Co-op in Calgary. Big box big chains running everything like a corporation that hires anyone that can walk and chew gum. And if you think that is bad? Some of the sales reps for the scotches like Highland Park, Macallan and Glenrothes are no better. If you are young, can smile and are of a cheery nature you get the job. I've had some private stores tell me that these new sales reps know nothing about what they are pushing.


This must be something specifically in Canada, because I have never found this in the UK and Lord knows I am always checking wink

LukeFive
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 16-09-2016 at 19:16 pm
lincolnimp wrote:
lincolnimp wrote:
BXpress wrote:
mrgood wrote:
BXpress wrote:

what i get angry about is when shops lure people with fake pictures of older/more popular versions, when they're actually selling a less popular version. 

The cynic in me wants to slap me in the face for being naive in even suggesting this, but I wonder if some cases (not all, but some) are just shop employees being lazy.  As in "meh, it's practically the same bottle, I don't need to go to the work of making a new picture.  who cares, who's going to notice?"...   I am, you lazy sack 'o crap happy

Or better yet, if they just don't even realize it's a different bottle, ie employees who are careless instead of lazy.

Just in case, I hereby shame lazy, careless employees in general.

That is true. I've had the same problem with liquor depot in the past with their on-line inventory. Way too many lazy people out there causing grief for everyone. And it starts at the top. I have a boss that's doesn't give a shit when I bring up issues with others that don't give a shit on how they do their job. His favourite saying is "not enough time in the day my friend". And nothing gets dealt with of fixed! 

no. too suspicious. even if they'd take the pics from google, how hard is it to recognize your own bottle? you would really have to go out of your way to have non-matching pictures. believe me, shop owners do read Whiskyfun and they do watch Ralfy. look at the Lochnagar example. the two bottles look nothing alike and it's not just an older version but a special edition aswell.

Liquor depot had Springbank 21-year-old on their site and this is the they showed https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/3504 when in fact they had this one https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/30350/springbank-21-year-old This has happened at least 6 or 7 times. They know nothing of Whiskyfun or Ralfy. In fact, they no almost nothing about whisky at all. They are just a bunch of retail twats.


This happens quite a lot but if you know whisky yourself and know prices you can pretty much guess whether the picture matches the price and it is the right bottle.
It is wrong to say retailers  know nothing because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?
I wish there were sellers who were that stupid. happy
Unfortunately or fortunately (depending how you look at it) they are "that stupid". The big box retailers are a lot like grocery store clerks. I don't even want to converse with them anymore as they are so dim-witted. They don't know what chilled filtration is, that some have added colourant in them, or that there are such things as batch differences. They know nothing about what they are selling. There are just there to assist you. 

And to your point on "because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?" they do one better. They mis-price new stock well below their own cost. That has happened several times and the only time that it's caught is when I've tried using a 10% off coupon to get an additional discount because the computer sometimes won't allow further discounts under cost. One guy over-rided it for me once by giving me the discount on something else twice to make-up for the fact that he wasn't able to do it on the Macallan 30yo Fine Oak that was already mis-priced hundreds of dollars below their cost. And this mis-pricing is happening at the corporate level. The stores don't set the prices.

This happens with Wine and Beyond in Edmonton and Co-op in Calgary. Big box big chains running everything like a corporation that hires anyone that can walk and chew gum. And if you think that is bad? Some of the sales reps for the scotches like Highland Park, Macallan and Glenrothes are no better. If you are young, can smile and are of a cheery nature you get the job. I've had some private stores tell me that these new sales reps know nothing about what they are pushing.


This must be something specifically in Canada, because I have never found this in the UK and Lord knows I am always checking wink

i have found Port Ellen 1st release for 10% of TWE price in small shop about 2 years ago Linc wink



lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 16-09-2016 at 23:15 pm
LukeFive wrote:
lincolnimp wrote:
lincolnimp wrote:
BXpress wrote:
mrgood wrote:
BXpress wrote:

what i get angry about is when shops lure people with fake pictures of older/more popular versions, when they're actually selling a less popular version. 

The cynic in me wants to slap me in the face for being naive in even suggesting this, but I wonder if some cases (not all, but some) are just shop employees being lazy.  As in "meh, it's practically the same bottle, I don't need to go to the work of making a new picture.  who cares, who's going to notice?"...   I am, you lazy sack 'o crap happy

Or better yet, if they just don't even realize it's a different bottle, ie employees who are careless instead of lazy.

Just in case, I hereby shame lazy, careless employees in general.

That is true. I've had the same problem with liquor depot in the past with their on-line inventory. Way too many lazy people out there causing grief for everyone. And it starts at the top. I have a boss that's doesn't give a shit when I bring up issues with others that don't give a shit on how they do their job. His favourite saying is "not enough time in the day my friend". And nothing gets dealt with of fixed! 

no. too suspicious. even if they'd take the pics from google, how hard is it to recognize your own bottle? you would really have to go out of your way to have non-matching pictures. believe me, shop owners do read Whiskyfun and they do watch Ralfy. look at the Lochnagar example. the two bottles look nothing alike and it's not just an older version but a special edition aswell.

Liquor depot had Springbank 21-year-old on their site and this is the they showed https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/3504 when in fact they had this one https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/30350/springbank-21-year-old This has happened at least 6 or 7 times. They know nothing of Whiskyfun or Ralfy. In fact, they no almost nothing about whisky at all. They are just a bunch of retail twats.


This happens quite a lot but if you know whisky yourself and know prices you can pretty much guess whether the picture matches the price and it is the right bottle.
It is wrong to say retailers  know nothing because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?
I wish there were sellers who were that stupid. happy
Unfortunately or fortunately (depending how you look at it) they are "that stupid". The big box retailers are a lot like grocery store clerks. I don't even want to converse with them anymore as they are so dim-witted. They don't know what chilled filtration is, that some have added colourant in them, or that there are such things as batch differences. They know nothing about what they are selling. There are just there to assist you. 

And to your point on "because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?" they do one better. They mis-price new stock well below their own cost. That has happened several times and the only time that it's caught is when I've tried using a 10% off coupon to get an additional discount because the computer sometimes won't allow further discounts under cost. One guy over-rided it for me once by giving me the discount on something else twice to make-up for the fact that he wasn't able to do it on the Macallan 30yo Fine Oak that was already mis-priced hundreds of dollars below their cost. And this mis-pricing is happening at the corporate level. The stores don't set the prices.

This happens with Wine and Beyond in Edmonton and Co-op in Calgary. Big box big chains running everything like a corporation that hires anyone that can walk and chew gum. And if you think that is bad? Some of the sales reps for the scotches like Highland Park, Macallan and Glenrothes are no better. If you are young, can smile and are of a cheery nature you get the job. I've had some private stores tell me that these new sales reps know nothing about what they are pushing.


This must be something specifically in Canada, because I have never found this in the UK and Lord knows I am always checking wink

i have found Port Ellen 1st release for 10% of TWE price in small shop about 2 years ago Linc wink




No way Luke, £300 for a 1st release, 2 years ago at auction they were £1500 ish I believe.
Why didn`t you buy it?
Actually unless you were skint, you should have bought it and you need your head looking at  for not buying it..
If you did buy it, nice one wink
I dream of walking into a shop like that, there is no credit card off limits in that situation, life is so unfair.

  Edited on 16-09-2016 at 23:17 pm
LukeFive
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 16-09-2016 at 23:53 pm
lincolnimp wrote:
LukeFive wrote:
lincolnimp wrote:
lincolnimp wrote:
BXpress wrote:
mrgood wrote:
BXpress wrote:

what i get angry about is when shops lure people with fake pictures of older/more popular versions, when they're actually selling a less popular version. 

The cynic in me wants to slap me in the face for being naive in even suggesting this, but I wonder if some cases (not all, but some) are just shop employees being lazy.  As in "meh, it's practically the same bottle, I don't need to go to the work of making a new picture.  who cares, who's going to notice?"...   I am, you lazy sack 'o crap happy

Or better yet, if they just don't even realize it's a different bottle, ie employees who are careless instead of lazy.

Just in case, I hereby shame lazy, careless employees in general.

That is true. I've had the same problem with liquor depot in the past with their on-line inventory. Way too many lazy people out there causing grief for everyone. And it starts at the top. I have a boss that's doesn't give a shit when I bring up issues with others that don't give a shit on how they do their job. His favourite saying is "not enough time in the day my friend". And nothing gets dealt with of fixed! 

no. too suspicious. even if they'd take the pics from google, how hard is it to recognize your own bottle? you would really have to go out of your way to have non-matching pictures. believe me, shop owners do read Whiskyfun and they do watch Ralfy. look at the Lochnagar example. the two bottles look nothing alike and it's not just an older version but a special edition aswell.

Liquor depot had Springbank 21-year-old on their site and this is the they showed https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/3504 when in fact they had this one https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/30350/springbank-21-year-old This has happened at least 6 or 7 times. They know nothing of Whiskyfun or Ralfy. In fact, they no almost nothing about whisky at all. They are just a bunch of retail twats.


This happens quite a lot but if you know whisky yourself and know prices you can pretty much guess whether the picture matches the price and it is the right bottle.
It is wrong to say retailers  know nothing because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?
I wish there were sellers who were that stupid. happy
Unfortunately or fortunately (depending how you look at it) they are "that stupid". The big box retailers are a lot like grocery store clerks. I don't even want to converse with them anymore as they are so dim-witted. They don't know what chilled filtration is, that some have added colourant in them, or that there are such things as batch differences. They know nothing about what they are selling. There are just there to assist you. 

And to your point on "because if they did actually know nothing about whisky they would indeed sell you the Springbank 21 tall bottle for the price of the latest version?" they do one better. They mis-price new stock well below their own cost. That has happened several times and the only time that it's caught is when I've tried using a 10% off coupon to get an additional discount because the computer sometimes won't allow further discounts under cost. One guy over-rided it for me once by giving me the discount on something else twice to make-up for the fact that he wasn't able to do it on the Macallan 30yo Fine Oak that was already mis-priced hundreds of dollars below their cost. And this mis-pricing is happening at the corporate level. The stores don't set the prices.

This happens with Wine and Beyond in Edmonton and Co-op in Calgary. Big box big chains running everything like a corporation that hires anyone that can walk and chew gum. And if you think that is bad? Some of the sales reps for the scotches like Highland Park, Macallan and Glenrothes are no better. If you are young, can smile and are of a cheery nature you get the job. I've had some private stores tell me that these new sales reps know nothing about what they are pushing.


This must be something specifically in Canada, because I have never found this in the UK and Lord knows I am always checking wink

i have found Port Ellen 1st release for 10% of TWE price in small shop about 2 years ago Linc wink




No way Luke, £300 for a 1st release, 2 years ago at auction they were £1500 ish I believe.
Why didn`t you buy it?
Actually unless you were skint, you should have bought it and you need your head looking at  for not buying it..
If you did buy it, nice one wink
I dream of walking into a shop like that, there is no credit card off limits in that situation, life is so unfair.

Yes I have bought it. I couldn't believe that. I flip it on auction for £1500+ 3 months later, when I needed money. You know that feeling, selecting a bottle from collection and terminate it forever from it. I knew I wouldnt be lucky again so I kept it for a while. Im not real peat head so it wasn't that hard at the end. 

Im glad I almost paid off the debt I have got on my credit card. Its frozen and its safer this way. Most of it went into my collection.

Im fortunate enough to have wealthy friend. Even when I would need £1000 right now i would have it transferred on my account. its bit harder to pay it back sad. I always pay when I agree with him on the date ( I would never welch ) and he likes light whisky's, he's favorite is glenlivet. I always give him 200ml bottle of fiddich or other light and fruity one. He doesnt want anything from me, but I know it makes him happy happy

  Edited on 17-09-2016 at 00:09 am
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