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karloff
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 23-01-2016 at 09:28 am

Mrgood,you are right,it is a depressing thought but inevitable. I would agree with your choices and throw in Abhainn Dearg, Dailuaine and Tamnavulin.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Tom Waits
lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 23-01-2016 at 12:18 pm
karloff wrote:

Mrgood,you are right,it is a depressing thought but inevitable. I would agree with your choices and throw in Abhainn Dearg, Dailuaine and Tamnavulin.


Dailuaine would be bad loss sad



mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 25-01-2016 at 15:49 pm
karloff wrote:

Mrgood,you are right,it is a depressing thought but inevitable. I would agree with your choices and throw in Abhainn Dearg, Dailuaine and Tamnavulin.

heh, yeah, I was thinking Abhainn Dearg as well.  Their young starter release was, shall we say, uninspiring.  It's hard to see them getting a major foothold in the market.  BUT I'm pretty sure they're locally owned (so not at the mercy of the whims of a conglomerate overlord), and I think they're aiming far less ambitiously than the likes of Kilchoman (as far as mass appeal).  I think they would survive, even if it's only in the form of a cheaper micro-distillery-type alternative.

St. Pauli
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 26-01-2016 at 10:44 am

I have the book too, it's very interesting to read all the stories. 

On the other side, there are a bunch of newbees, as you can see on this overview that I made: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zPyx0FI8nHAY.kCCvxAHTbVsg&usp=sharing. 

I wonder if and how they are going to persist. Some of them have a diversication or are started as a spin off from other activities, like brewing beer or distilling gin. Gin is hip, so they might generate income directly and constantly for the first number of years, but what if the gin hype stops? Don't get me wrong, I hope they can survive and bring a portfolio of new and fresh whiskies to the market. Let's see.

About Dailuaine: I can see why people think that this distillery may vanish, but wouldn't such a distillery be a suitable candidate for a buy-out or takeover?
karloff
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 26-01-2016 at 10:52 am

I was reading about the closure of Lochside distillery in Scotch Missed book. A skeleton staff were left to move all casks in bond to be moved to Spain or disposed of,now seeing Lochside whisky at the time was considered by many as one of the finest, I just wonder how many found there way into the workers homes,friends,family? It took them five years to empty it. Mice in charge of the cheese larder I reckon. There is a few stories in this book about a strong smell of whisky coming from ex employees homes . A great book by the way, really enjoying it,

  Edited on 26-01-2016 at 10:55 am
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Tom Waits
karloff
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 26-01-2016 at 11:31 am

My God Saint, that is a lot of new distilleries. What about Brora? Apparently most of the distillery is still intact,including it's two stills, and it already has an established name. Have you ever been to Dailuaine? It's not pretty,very industrial. Looks busy though.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Tom Waits
St. Pauli
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 26-01-2016 at 12:06 pm
karloff wrote:

My God Saint, that is a lot of new distilleries. What about Brora? Apparently most of the distillery is still intact,including it's two stills, and it already has an established name. Have you ever been to Dailuaine? It's not pretty,very industrial. Looks busy though.


Well, I guess that for Brora, the buyer would have to pay a considerable amount (if not a very large sum of money) for the so-called goodwill: the value that the brand is worth. This might scare off buyers. 

Regarding Dailuaine: nope, never been there, but the few bottlings that are released (both the OBs and IBs I've tasted) were not bat at all in my book, to say the least. If they would be put aside because of the larger supply of Roseisle, they might survive on their own. 
mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 26-01-2016 at 15:56 pm
St. Pauli wrote:

On the other side, there are a bunch of newbees, as you can see on this overview that I made: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zPyx0FI8nHAY.kCCvxAHTbVsg&usp=sharing. 

You should start a new thread about new distilleries, so people can add to it.  After seeing your map I was going to make a thread, but figured you should get the honor, given your list is far more impressive than mine.

mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 26-01-2016 at 16:31 pm
St. Pauli wrote:
karloff wrote:

...What about Brora? Apparently most of the distillery is still intact,including it's two stills, and it already has an established name.

Well, I guess that for Brora, the buyer would have to pay a considerable amount (if not a very large sum of money) for the so-called goodwill: the value that the brand is worth. This might scare off buyers. 

This may be total bupkis, but I heard the equipment has not been well maintained (a.k.a. left to rot), in which case start-up costs might be significant, even after shelling out for the brand name.  That being said, Diageo will sell neither the brand nor the distillery, no way, no how...  at least not any time soon.  It's far too lucrative.  I expect they'd either re-open it themselves, or sell it but only after every last drop they have in the warehouse is fully and utterly spent... which won't be for a long long while. I'd bet my house we'll eventually see a 50yr... at HOLY CRAP prices!

lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 26-01-2016 at 18:12 pm
mrgood wrote:
St. Pauli wrote:
karloff wrote:

...What about Brora? Apparently most of the distillery is still intact,including it's two stills, and it already has an established name.

Well, I guess that for Brora, the buyer would have to pay a considerable amount (if not a very large sum of money) for the so-called goodwill: the value that the brand is worth. This might scare off buyers. 

This may be total bupkis, but I heard the equipment has not been well maintained (a.k.a. left to rot), in which case start-up costs might be significant, even after shelling out for the brand name.  That being said, Diageo will sell neither the brand nor the distillery, no way, no how...  at least not any time soon.  It's far too lucrative.  I expect they'd either re-open it themselves, or sell it but only after every last drop they have in the warehouse is fully and utterly spent... which won't be for a long long while. I'd bet my house we'll eventually see a 50yr... at HOLY CRAP prices!


I would be really interested to know just how many casks they have left of Brora, is anyone on the inside track who can give us an educated guess?



St. Pauli
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 26-01-2016 at 18:47 pm
mrgood wrote:
St. Pauli wrote:

On the other side, there are a bunch of newbees, as you can see on this overview that I made: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zPyx0FI8nHAY.kCCvxAHTbVsg&usp=sharing. 

You should start a new thread about new distilleries, so people can add to it.  After seeing your map I was going to make a thread, but figured you should get the honor, given your list is far more impressive than mine.

Thanks happy, done!

mrgood
Expert Junior Junior Expert
Posted on 26-01-2016 at 20:11 pm
lincolnimp wrote:
I would be really interested to know just how many casks they have left of Brora, is anyone on the inside track who can give us an educated guess?

They'll never tell us, same with Port Ellen.  I'm sure only a select few know how many casks they actually have left.  They can't reveal it, otherwise how will they be able keep alluding to "this may be the last release ever" ahead of each annual release?


In fact, I probably won't even believe them when they finally do say it's all gone, because the skeptic in me will think they're hoarding a few for a rainy day so they can pop up now and again to break a new price record with an "oh look, we stumbled upon another cask, and it's a cracker!" happy
BenNevis
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 28-03-2016 at 10:11 am

I am 1/2 way through Scotch Missed, very nice book and very interesting . I have also been wondering about stocks of whisky from closed distilleries, I can remember reading about 1 of the 1st Port Ellen's releases it was hinted that it mite be one of the last. Now they are up to 13 or 14

Signature Picture
lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 28-03-2016 at 11:42 am
BenNevis wrote:

I am 1/2 way through Scotch Missed, very nice book and very interesting . I have also been wondering about stocks of whisky from closed distilleries, I can remember reading about 1 of the 1st Port Ellen's releases it was hinted that it mite be one of the last. Now they are up to 13 or 14


I was under the impression that there is still plenty of Port Ellen but the new annual release is from I believe 1983 so that is an indication that possibly they have only the last one or 2 years production left.
All I know about Brora is that they have at least 2 casks left from 1972 but again it is just hearsay, well actually one is definite because it has been photographed.
As for later stocks not sure.
I for one am more interested in Glenugie, Glenury, Convalmore and Glenlochy.
Does anyone know if there is any stock left from these 4
It sounds like the Lochside has all but gone now.
peatbogger
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 28-03-2016 at 15:44 pm

Here's a book with a different approach:

"Still Life with Bottle, Whisky according to Ralph Steadman"
still%20life_zpsqgysfiqc.jpg
I got the paperback, but it's available as hardcover with another picture on the sleeve.
It may be outdated on much of the distillery facts and figures info, but it's cheap and full of history written in humorous ways, and the art work is hilarious.

karloff
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 30-03-2016 at 00:05 am
lincolnimp wrote:
BenNevis wrote:

I am 1/2 way through Scotch Missed, very nice book and very interesting . I have also been wondering about stocks of whisky from closed distilleries, I can remember reading about 1 of the 1st Port Ellen's releases it was hinted that it mite be one of the last. Now they are up to 13 or 14


I was under the impression that there is still plenty of Port Ellen but the new annual release is from I believe 1983 so that is an indication that possibly they have only the last one or 2 years production left.
All I know about Brora is that they have at least 2 casks left from 1972 but again it is just hearsay, well actually one is definite because it has been photographed.
As for later stocks not sure.
I for one am more interested in Glenugie, Glenury, Convalmore and Glenlochy.
Does anyone know if there is any stock left from these 4
It sounds like the Lochside has all but gone now.



Linc you asked about Glenugie, in the book Scotch Missed,which I believe you recommend,it says in the 60's it's warehouses were full to the brim with 1.5 million gallons,and it was still producing right up until the early eighties,so I can imagine there will be plenty left,don't you think?

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Tom Waits
lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 30-03-2016 at 00:17 am
karloff wrote:
lincolnimp wrote:
BenNevis wrote:

I am 1/2 way through Scotch Missed, very nice book and very interesting . I have also been wondering about stocks of whisky from closed distilleries, I can remember reading about 1 of the 1st Port Ellen's releases it was hinted that it mite be one of the last. Now they are up to 13 or 14


I was under the impression that there is still plenty of Port Ellen but the new annual release is from I believe 1983 so that is an indication that possibly they have only the last one or 2 years production left.
All I know about Brora is that they have at least 2 casks left from 1972 but again it is just hearsay, well actually one is definite because it has been photographed.
As for later stocks not sure.
I for one am more interested in Glenugie, Glenury, Convalmore and Glenlochy.
Does anyone know if there is any stock left from these 4
It sounds like the Lochside has all but gone now.



Linc you asked about Glenugie, in the book Scotch Missed,which I believe you recommend,it says in the 60's it's warehouses were full to the brim with 1.5 million gallons,and it was still producing right up until the early eighties,so I can imagine there will be plenty left,don't you think?

I am no expert but Glenugie is/was in very short supply and there has not been a bottle from an independent for almost 4 years now.
Like most of the closed gems it was all used in blending. Glenlochy, Glenury and Glenugie in particular are becoming as rare as hens teeth when compared to Port Ellen and Brora.
I need to find a blend with a good % of one of those in. happy

karloff
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 30-03-2016 at 00:24 am
lincolnimp wrote:
karloff wrote:
lincolnimp wrote:
BenNevis wrote:

I am 1/2 way through Scotch Missed, very nice book and very interesting . I have also been wondering about stocks of whisky from closed distilleries, I can remember reading about 1 of the 1st Port Ellen's releases it was hinted that it mite be one of the last. Now they are up to 13 or 14


I was under the impression that there is still plenty of Port Ellen but the new annual release is from I believe 1983 so that is an indication that possibly they have only the last one or 2 years production left.
All I know about Brora is that they have at least 2 casks left from 1972 but again it is just hearsay, well actually one is definite because it has been photographed.
As for later stocks not sure.
I for one am more interested in Glenugie, Glenury, Convalmore and Glenlochy.
Does anyone know if there is any stock left from these 4
It sounds like the Lochside has all but gone now.



Linc you asked about Glenugie, in the book Scotch Missed,which I believe you recommend,it says in the 60's it's warehouses were full to the brim with 1.5 million gallons,and it was still producing right up until the early eighties,so I can imagine there will be plenty left,don't you think?

I am no expert but Glenugie is/was in very short supply and there has not been a bottle from an independent for almost 4 years now.
Like most of the closed gems it was all used in blending. Glenlochy, Glenury and Glenugie in particular are becoming as rare as hens teeth when compared to Port Ellen and Brora.
I need to find a blend with a good % of one of those in. happy



Would that possibly be Long John ?

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Tom Waits
lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 30-03-2016 at 00:29 am

Is that what the book says because you can pick Long John up for £20 ish?

karloff
Specialist Specialist
Posted on 30-03-2016 at 00:33 am
lincolnimp wrote:

Is that what the book says because you can pick Long John up for £20 ish?



I think earlier bottling's of Long John 60's 70's

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Tom Waits
lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 30-03-2016 at 00:36 am
Newer Long John are a blend of 48 malts but I will do some research on this one, thanks
I will also have to dig my copy out of Scotch missed.
cfosterk
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 30-03-2016 at 00:46 am

I for one am more interested in Glenugie, Glenury, Convalmore and Glenlochy.
Does anyone know if there is any stock left from these 4
It sounds like the Lochside has all but gone now.



Linc you asked about Glenugie, in the book Scotch Missed,which I believe you recommend,it says in the 60's it's warehouses were full to the brim with 1.5 million gallons,and it was still producing right up until the early eighties,so I can imagine there will be plenty left,don't you think?

I am no expert but Glenugie is/was in very short supply and there has not been a bottle from an independent for almost 4 years now.
Like most of the closed gems it was all used in blending. Glenlochy, Glenury and Glenugie in particular are becoming as rare as hens teeth when compared to Port Ellen and Brora.
I need to find a blend with a good % of one of those in. happy

There's a second issue of Glenugie from Chivas Brothers which was still available from distilleries and online.

https://www.whiskybase.com/whisky/25205/glenugie-1980-deoch-an-doras

30 year old closed distillery - £150.00. Not quite in Brora or Port Ellen's league....

cfosterk
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 30-03-2016 at 00:49 am

For sale on whiskybase at £450.00 but if its just the whisky you want and can afford its £150 direct!

http://www.maltwhiskydistilleries.com/Shop/Welcome/Shop/tabid/54/CategoryID/5/Default.aspx

How about this for the first whisky club purchase??

  Edited on 30-03-2016 at 00:51 am
lincolnimp
Connoisseur Connoisseur
Posted on 31-03-2016 at 12:45 pm
cfosterk wrote:

For sale on whiskybase at £450.00 but if its just the whisky you want and can afford its £150 direct!

http://www.maltwhiskydistilleries.com/Shop/Welcome/Shop/tabid/54/CategoryID/5/Default.aspx

How about this for the first whisky club purchase??

 


Before anything is decided we would need to know numbers of people interested and the following:-


1 - What do you think is a good figure for number of members?

2 - How much per bottle are people happy with, 6cl, 10 cl etc, this may govern numbers in the group also?

3 - Who is doing the buying and admin, I assume they get an extra sample perhaps for doing the leg work, it would be fair I suppose?

4 - No problem delivering to EU but North America and Non EU have export/import duties plus other restrictions. Also if the admin was UK based then samples can be posted for £3 but to the likes of Holland, Belgium and Germany it would be £12 minimum as most UK couriers will not allow you to send alcohol. The same would apply if the Amin was in mainland EU then  UK members would likewise pay much more for postage. Extra postage costs eat in to individual buying power?

5 - We could start a bottle swap club on members group and gauge interest but lets say 20 were genuinely interested (I feel it could be less than 10 in reality) then you are down to perhaps 3cl per bottle, is that worth it or do we buy a few bottles a time?

6 - Investment per month £10. £20, £30 and a buying strategy. Are we going for rarer bottles that we could not afford on our own or do we want to buy cheaper good quality IB and get more for our money? I think the way to do payment is PAYPAL, there are no fees with a family friends payment so paying to the person doing the purchasing is not an issue

7 - Who is best placed to oversee the buying and packing because it is a big commitment and responsibility?

 

I think the bottle buy members club is a good idea and if we created it as a members group, that would be a start, then we can gauge interest .

Finally a very firm stipulation, it is a drinkers club not an investment club.

What do other people think, this is just a polite  suggestion and I am throwing it open so all comments welcome.

  Edited on 31-03-2016 at 15:00 pm
thanasist
Expert Senior Senior Expert
Posted on 02-04-2016 at 10:04 am
cfosterk wrote:

For sale on whiskybase at £450.00 but if its just the whisky you want and can afford its £150 direct!

http://www.maltwhiskydistilleries.com/Shop/Welcome/Shop/tabid/54/CategoryID/5/Default.aspx

How about this for the first whisky club purchase??


Cforstek, besides your link there is also this one

http://staging.maltwhiskydistillery.com/Store/Shop-Products/CategoryID/5/ProductID/35/PageIndex/1

250 pounds there although the same company same numbers tel, adress all the same except a bit different webname ???????

Any ideas on why is this? Also one site has an indication somewhere 2007 and the other 2013 as registered or something


Lincolnlimp, in your n. 7 question i could suggest that there could be 2, even 3 persons, depending where the original location of the buying bottles is. Probably UK , Germany and Netherlands maybe? And UK and Germany for sure since many shops there don't send abroad and someone has to make the order and get the bottles to proceed with the distribution of the samples.

Indeed it is a very good idea but as you mentioned shipping cost might be the problem.



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